Episode 183: Rejection (and how to bounce back)

“My boss pulled me aside and said, ‘so we’re really struggling and we’ve decided to eliminate your position effective immediately. So you need to pack up your desk and go.’”

— Amy Campbell Bogie

Photo by Steve Johnson on Unsplash

“I think women are socialized to please, to get approval, and rejection is the opposite of that. You know, we’re not getting approval.”

— Jessica Bacal

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Rejection plays a part in everyone's work experience. It certainly has in mine. No one likes getting rejected - but is it harder on women?

Jessica bacal

In this show I speak to Jessica Bacal, author of The Rejection that Changed My Life, about the sting of rejection and what we can learn from it. We also meet nonprofit leader Amy Campbell Bogie. She talks about two searing rejections she went through, and how to emerge gracefully from what can feel like a slap in the face.

Jess spoke to 25 women for her book, each of whom learned something useful from their rejections. That’s not to say that rejection always has a silver lining - or if it does, it might be hidden. Rejection feels awful. But even when I look back to my most painful work rejection, it still taught me something, even if it was something I didn’t want to hear.

You can also read a transcript of the show.

Further reading: Thanks to Jess Bacal I found out about the work of UCL professor Raina Brands, the co-author of this 2017 Harvard Business Review piece on women executives’ response to rejection.

Episode 182: Doing What Matters

“While I can shake my fist in the air and say, I should not have been blocked, or laid off - that was somebody else’s decision. And I decided that I was tired of leaving my life in the hands of others.”

— Lauren Tucker

lauren tucker

Lauren Tucker is a longtime advertising executive and, as a Black female, she's rather unusual in that industry.

The last time we spoke she was finding it tough to land a job in her field in a new city. Today she runs her own successful inclusion management business, Do What Matters, where she grapples with everything from cultural blind spots to terrible job descriptions.

Still, Lauren is itching to find out what's around the corner. Looking back, she sees a career that despite her ambitions was largely controlled by others. Her job's demands influenced what she did with her life. Today, she wants her job to be in service of her life - and her perspective on life has changed quite a bit in the last few turbulent years.

She still has a lot to do.

You can also read a transcript of the show.

Episode 181: Digital Body Language

“Even the fact that we are all on smaller thumbnail screens in a video meeting, we are less cognizant of a lot of those visual body language biases. If there’s four men and one woman, we’re less likely to notice that.”

— Erica Dhawan

“I even went back through the email to see…was I more direct than I should have been, or was I unkind in the way that I was communicating? I really think it was because I just didn’t use exclamation points to seem friendlier.”

— Liz Zelnick

Erica Dhawan (l) and Ashley M-T (r) engaging in our own digital body language

Nearly all our workplace communication is digital. Gone are the days when faxing seemed like efficient new technology (believe me, it did at one point). Emails, team communication programs like Slack, texting, instant messaging - they’re all convenient and speedy. They can also cause a lot of angst.

In this show I sit down with Erica Dhawan, author of the book Digital Body Language, to talk about why digital communication can be so fraught with frustration and anxiety. Is that terse email simply to the point, or does a more sinister meaning lurk in those short sentences? Are emojis OK at the office and if so, for whom? I’m also joined by Liz Zelnick, whose experience in a past job made her think again about her use of exclamation points.

And we look at the advantages of virtual meetings, where stereotypes can fade into the background.

You can also read a transcript of the show.

Episode 180: A Book of Her Own (re-release)

“If you’ve got a business [book] market that is primarily male, then it’s commercial suicide to put out a book on a topic by a woman when you could put one out by a bloke.”

— Alison Jones

Some of the business books on my shelf

Scan the business section of any bookstore and you'll see reams of books written by men, far fewer by women. In this show we talk about women as writers and readers of business books. Is it imposter syndrome, fear, or lack of time that stops women from putting fingers to keyboard? Is Lean In a business book or a self-help book? And why are female authors less likely to embrace a publicity blitz when their book is published?

alison jones

My guest is Alison Jones, owner of Practical Inspiration Publishing, host of the Extraordinary Business Book Club podcast and author of This Book Means Business.

You can also read a transcript of the show, which originally aired in 2018.

Episode 179: Sixtyish and Loving It: Perseverance and the Midlife Career Change

“People say, wouldn’t you like to be 30 again or 40? You know, I’m loving being this age...it’s a stage of our lives that can be just as rewarding and achieving as every other stage, if you put your mind to it.”

— Heather McGregor

Professor Heather Mcgregor

In the last couple of episodes we discussed the transitions working couples go through during their lives. In this show we re-meet a former guest who’s half of one such couple. Heather McGregor embraced a big career change at 55, going from entrepreneur to academic dean running Edinburgh Business School. She’s continuing a stage where she's switched from supportive partner to family breadwinner.

This transition involved a big move and, initially, living apart from her spouse and son. It hasn’t always been easy, but, she says - like staying married - it’s been worth it.

Heather has always had an eye on the future, planning for what might come next. She believes it's never too late for a career change, as long as you prepare ahead of time.

You can also read a transcript of the show.

Heather is the author of several books, among them Mrs. Moneypenny’s Career Advice for Ambitious Women.

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For many years Heather wrote a column for the Financial Times as Mrs. Moneypenny. I first approached her for an interview in 2012. She’s appeared in these past episodes.

I realized after I put this list together that the last time she and I spoke was actually in 2015, not 2016 as I said in the podcast.

Episode 4: Getting Ahead

Episode 11: Women of a Certain Age

Episode 18: The Power of Image

Episode 26: Get Ahead. No Guilt.

Episode 147: Forced Out

Episode 178: Working Couples - Your Questions Answered

“Sometimes you read these articles, ‘you should never live apart,’ or ‘you should always do this or that.’ I mean, this is ridiculous. All of these things can work. It’s a question of when they work.”

— Jennifer Petriglieri

Jennifer Petriglieri

This is a quick follow-up episode to the last show with INSEAD professor Jennifer Petriglieri, author of Couples that Work. We tackle a few of your questions, covering everything from 'how do we split the invisible home and parenting tasks?' to couples with different working styles to couples living apart for work.

You can also read a transcript of the show.